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Rania Rageh's picture

Why do I sense that there is fear of degradation of Health and Safety activities by applying ISO 45000?

Why do I sense that there is fear of degradation of Health and Safety activities by applying ISO 45000, where I think it is just an advanced system to the OH&S 18001 and to integrate it with the new versions of 9001 and 14001. 


And the standards are always the minimum requirements for safety better than not applying any system at all.


What do you think?


October 27, 2016 @ 02:35 PM EDT

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2 Answers


Hello Rania,

Thank you for your involvement and a very good question. I understand your curiosity around the apprehension regarding ISO  45001. My opinion includes a change in pace rather than total elimination of the new standard. I'd like to share a few points that support slowing the process, and I hope to continue dialogue with you by e-mail or otherwise.

1. It appears we are unable to answer basic questions regarding strategic implementation of this global standard. Our inability to make estimates regarding financial and cultural impacts speaks volumes in my opinion.

2. How will we mitigate ISO 45001 for those financially restricted or unable to meet standardized equipment and personnel needs?

3. A live lab or pilot program may be beneficial in answering questions and calming concerns. Where have we tested our thinking and systems? Considering concerns raised and/or potential blind spots, why are we resistant to a pilot or live lab?

4. If a participating region or country is unable to finance or otherwise staff necessary changes, will we allow the participating country or region to avoid the standard, lower the bar to a more attainable goal,  or will we finance or scholarship the region or country in our effort to standardize?

5. What regions or countries can currently meet ISO  45001 as proposed? I'm concerned that we cannot answer this question.

6. For those who cannot meet the current standard outlined in ISO 45001, how may we close the gap to maintain an even handed standard, how much time is needed, what will it cost, and who will pay for it?

In conclusion, these are difficult questions. Most troubling is we have not answered them. Once piloted and estimations are provided, we may be able to move forward confidently. I hope this helps. Thank you again for your involvement and great questions.


- Marcus Mann,
Sound Predictions LLC
206-501-9170 (USA, PST)

October 28, 2016 @ 14:11
Mark Mann's picture


Tamara Parris's picture
Tamara Parris

thank you @markmann for sharing these insights and thoughts

October 28, 2016 @ 02:18 PM EDT
Mark Mann's picture
Mark Mann

And thank you, Tamara, for all you do. It was wonderful working with you and Ron Gantt on the recent informational webinar on ISO 45001.

October 30, 2016 @ 03:40 PM EDT
Tamara Parris's picture
Tamara Parris

it was a great session @markmann I hope you are open to doing more with us :)

November 01, 2016 @ 09:56 AM EDT

These are great thoughts Rania! Thank you for sharing your perspective. 

Here’s some of my thoughts:

First, I don’t necessarily agree that we can say that the ISO 45001 will be an advanced version of the OHSAS 18001 standard. From my understanding of the current draft there are some elements of 45001 that will be advanced and some that will not be. As the negotiations go on we don’t know for sure what the end result will be, unfortunately. 

Second, we have to remember that how the standards are intended will be different than how they are used. Although standards are intended to be the minimum, they will quickly become the maximum for many. You could argue that regulations are designed to be the minimum as well. If that’s true, why do we need a management system standard? I would argue that it’s to convince people that we needed to go beyond the minimum. But in creating a standard you created a new goal to achieve that now will be where people stop. 

All of this must be considered with the extremely important point that there is not agreement in the safety science research literature that management systems actually benefit organizations. So we have this big push to implement this international standard that will create a new standard that people will aspire to that is based upon something that we don’t even really know if it will be a good thing or a bad thing. 

We have to remember that although there’s a tendency for us to think that doing something for safety is better than nothing, this is not true. When you do something you can never undo it. You can only deal with the consequences, which are often much harder to deal with then if we had been more careful to begin with. 

All myself and Marcus (if I may speak for him) are advocating is not to do nothing. Instead we just think we should slow down and ask the question if this is even the right thing to do. 

I hope this helps. Happy to continue the conversation!


Kind regards,


Ron Gantt I Vice President


+1 925 362 2265

October 27, 2016 @ 14:46
Ron Gantt's picture


Tamara Parris's picture
Tamara Parris

thank you @rongantt for answering our member @raniarageh question.

October 27, 2016 @ 02:38 PM EDT